Permission to Talk About the Tuff Stuff

Show Notes

Please click here to link to Trauma Healing Groups offered by Agora Network Ministries. An organization dedicated to helping individuals move towards greater mental health, where our Puzzler Catherine serves as the Trauma Healing Lead.

John Roedel's poem Patchwork Heart can be found here.

Transcript

Sue

Hello, everybody. Hello, my fellow puzzlers. Welcome to episode two of season two of The Puzzlers, where today we are going to address the question, why do we find it so hard to share authentically about our struggles? And today, just to set this up, we aren’t really talking about our struggles as much as we are going to talk about talking about our struggles. Although you never know what this group because sometimes the conversation has a life of its own. Yes, I do love these women. I'd like to suggest right off the top, though, that all of our conversations that we puzzle about are us talking about our struggles on some level. This season, we're talking about our struggle to play, our struggle to rest, our struggles with perfection and failure. These are all struggles. So we are going into a season of this topic. And I do want to say the women in this room tend to be okay with talking about their struggles. And yet there are still those moments when we choose to hide.

Val:

Oh for sure.

Sue:

Life is not a cakewalk. Life with God is not a cakewalk. And he never said it would be. So whether we have some ongoing personal issues or niggling family issues or specific loss, hurt or defined challenge, let's start off by agreeing that we all struggle on some level at some time. So I'm going to jump right in with my first question to get us all thinking along these lines. Can you think of a time when you have been in a grocery store or cafe, some public place, in the midst of a really challenging time, and you run into someone you know and they say, hi, how are you doing? And you, without even thinking, reply with a very neutral (air quotes) safe answer that doesn't even begin to tell your real story. Puzzlers and listeners, can you think of such a time and why you responded that way?

Tracy:

Well, I can jump in because honestly, if I'm in that kind of an emotional space, and I see you coming, I'm avoiding you. Right? So that's the first off thing. If I am in that space, I don't want to go there. And that's a hiding place, right? But then for a lot of years, I unknowingly hid behind the word fine. How are you doing? I'm fine. My acronym that I found for that is not, the same that we’ll come back to you, but it was… can I share that, share on this? Share?… I”ll edit a bit, but f’d up interior, nice exterior. And when I heard that, it just hit me to the core of my being because I knew that that was what was going on. And so I respond differently now. I think the grace that takes us through to honest answers. So I'll often say, well, do you want an honest answer or a polite one? Yeah, but my ‘why’ of why do I give that response? It - or I'll say “and you?” to redirect to someone else. Right. Like “I'm fine and you?” But I don't want unsolicited advice from someone. I don't want someone trying to fix me. And often the very fact that my (air quotes) issues aren't that like pretty little packaged ones. Not that it's pretty to have a whatever those prayer list kind of things are, mine tend to go deep in. That was the insecurity of work. People saying, oh, you're too deep. You're too deep. So I confuse people, right. Quite frankly, I and that piece.

Or I just don't want to be overly emotional. So one of the best things that ever happened to me in a very public space, my… I was still grieving my sister's death. I was with my brother in law. Something came up that brought her to mind quite publicly. And I was tearing up and in compassion, my brother in law stepped up and I said he was like, are you okay? And I just said, don't be nice to me. Don't be nice to me. And he punched me in the arm, and it was the best gift I ever received, because he also authentically saw that it was a communication. It was a punch in the arm. And I've said that, too. Don't be nice to me right now. Yeah. And then that was authentic within that. So yeah. But yeah, if I see you in a grocery store, (and I might not see you, I'm not necessarily avoiding you - I just want to clarify that) But if I see you, come see me.

Sue:

Yeah - Cause I’ve been there, niceness makes it worse sometimes. Hard.

Val:

When I was thinking about this conversation, it brought to mind this clown that I won at a carnival, and it has this head that swivels. It's actually very scary. You you can have this big, smiling clown, but then when you swivel it's head, it's like the sad clown on the other side. It just reminded me that, like, we might feel one way, but we'll swivel our heads and then. Oh, wow. Well, look this other way. But behind the scenes, there we are, still feeling (Sue: so good). I just think of, you know, many examples. I will flee the area in a grocery store if I don't feel like talking, but, just sort of another example of this is, you know, maybe when I was leading a small group every week and I'm running everywhere like a chicken without a head and getting dinner ready, getting my daughter where she needs to be feeling, like, exhausted, in this giant whirlwind. And then I… and then I open the door to lead the small group and jooop, head swivel, you know, exude peace and calm. How is everybody? Time to learn about Jesus, right?

Or even, like, in our own home. You know, maybe I'm stressed. Or maybe my husband and I are having an argument, and then the kids come downstairs and jooop, head swivel, right? Oh. Mommy's fine. Nothing, you know, nothing to see here. You know, adults don't struggle with things, you know? So, yeah, I think we do this all the time for all different reasons. (Sue: So many ways.) Yeah. And some reasons are valid and and okay, and sometimes they aren't. Right. Yeah.

Sue:

Yeah. So good.

Catherine:

Such a good conversation. Thank you for asking these questions Sue. Yeah. The great examples of you know, it's almost like we have we turn the coat inside out and there's all this stuff on the inside and nobody can see it, quote unquote, see it. But essentially you're asking when we hid our true self from others and when we're masks. Right? And I am pretty much a heart on the sleeve lady, but I know I went through a period of time when I went from being a complete open book to trying to hide and having absolute grid on my heart. And I was actually in a Bible study group, and that was where I was. The everything is fine, fine Feelings Inside Not Expressed. And in my welled up season, I was determined I wasn't going to be hurt again. Like you, Tracy, you know, you open yourself up. And I didn't trust myself. And I would trust what people said more. And I would listen to their advice, feedback, criticisms, whatever, and sometimes ended up more hurt. So, you know, in this season, I was going to smile and nod and keep the rest of me tucked inside, far away from any eyes. And I was doing a great job of being physically present and emotionally absent, quote unquote. Good job. It was really a shadow of myself.

I was smiling on the outside and hurting on the inside, and God actually spoke to me and he said, you said you love me with all your heart, your soul, your mind and strength, and you've put this grid over your heart. And I will tell you who to share with and who not to share with. Listen to my discernment. Will you let me have your heart instead of trying to wall it up? Because it's this disconnect, right? Like not connected to my true self. Not to connect, connected to the others and not connected to him. So yeah. Yeah, thanks for asking.

Sue:

Well, thank you for sharing, because the whole point in this is that when you guys share, you give me permission to share, which I will in a second. But that's that's Brené Brown again. And we we reference her quite often because she talks about vulnerability so well. But when we share our struggles we give other people permission to share struggles. So mine is almost a reverse struggle, if you will. And once again, going back to the fact that I got married last year. We got married January 1st. And so this time leading up to Christmas for me, last year was packing, moving, planning Christmas, planning a wedding, bringing family members together. Do I need to go on? It, It was so full and it was so exciting. Like I was on so many levels. I was walking on cloud nine and on other levels I was exhausted.

I mean, I really had no free time. I would go home at night and pack and then I would yeah, I was just constant and I would run into people in the grocery store and they'd say, oh, I heard your news. You must be so excited. And I would just go, Mmhm, I am. And I was, but I, I felt like I couldn't tell the whole story because like, who complains about a wonderful change in life?? But as I've, as my therapist told me once, hey even good stress is still stress. Yeah.

Catherine:

Yes. And so so and it's such binary thinking too right? like as if we can only have one emotion at a time.

Sue:

Exactly. Now there's definitely the both/and. Right? Like we come back to that. So. So these are all different kinds of struggles and times that we hide from sharing the fullness of what we're experiencing. Often more than one emotion at a time. And so but if we all go through this, we all hide at some point, why do and we apologize for our tears? And I want to just look at a few things that I've read and come up with of why we do this, and you guys chime in whenever you want. Here's some realities we tend to see expressing emotional struggles as weak, and we want to be seen as strong. We tend to see expressing emotional struggles as making us needy. And we want to appear in control. We tend to see expressing emotional struggles as being a downer, and we don't want to burden others. And so we end up hiding, and we don't allow others to see or know what is really happening with us.

But just like we experienced in this room, I wish the listeners could feel what happened in the room as we shared. Did you guys all feel it because we just listened… There is a beautiful thing about connection through sharing our heartaches, our difficulties.

Val:

Yeah, it breaks something. It breaks something.

Sue:

Yeah, absolutely. So I want you to think now about a time like that, when, again, you were out, maybe in a public place, or maybe somebody came by your house, whatever it is. But can you think of a time when somebody really opened up to you and expressed a difficult thing that they were going through, and how that played out?

Val:

Well, for me, people break down and share their struggles in my presence all the time. I'm used to it. A couple times a week someone will break down on the table or when I'm asking them how they're doing when they, at the beginning of their visit. I'm actually quite comfortable in that situation, and I actually like being invited into someone's struggles because it shows that they trust me and feel comfortable with me. I feel like it's a sacred space and I feel connected to them on a human experience level. I did have a time when I broke down in front of someone unexpectedly. They were just dropping something off at my house, and they caught me at a time when I was going through a difficult situation, and they asked me how I was doing, and I told them, exactly how I was doing with tears and the whole bit. And the reaction was a bit surprising. To me, they started to just back up slowly, and I'm sure if it had been socially acceptable, they would have jumped in their car and sped away.

But yeah, it made it really awkward. And, I think that's part of why we're hesitant to share our struggles, because we don't know how someone's going to receive us. And, we could make someone feel awkward or uncomfortable, and then thus make ourselves feel awkward and uncomfortable. So I don't know what what do we do with that possibility? Like, does that keep us from sharing? Or, you know, how do we navigate that?

Sue:

Yeah, I think sometimes there's wisdom in not sharing for sure. And sometimes we don't have the option to share like our emotions do take over. I don't know if that's the situation you were in in that story that you tell, but, we can, we can certainly hope that people have room for us. And I think that says more about that person, the person that backed away, that ran off, than it does about about you.

Catherine:

It's usually our own this comfort that makes. Right. And I think so often we think we have to have the answer or to fix it or to give, but really just listening. And it's so again, you know, not because of the fact that there was something about you, but they didn't know how to how to respond.

Tracy:

And giving someone room to respond like one of the things I said that I will answer but that I will ask to someone else is like do you want an honest answer or a polite one. Because I've actually had people say polite ones, good. And then you can say, well, I'm doing well, you know, but also people coming and yes, people breaking down in my presence. But I'm, I think because of that whole “fine” journey for me, I'm aware of when people aren't served that way. And so I will take that question gently. But to create space that says, like just saying, like, really? Is that a polite answer or an honest one? And floodgates can just open within that. And then I think that one of the things I find so fascinating, sad, I think, but that you're touching on, is that after something like that happens, people tend to apologize.

I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I shouldn't have done that. I feel guilty, you know, just. I'm so sorry. And you've said that earlier. Like, why do we apologize for that? But. Yeah, is it an honest one? And that's like, that guy or whoever it was that came to you Val, they wanted a polite answer. They just wanted the nice little airbrushed answer. So I find evaluating at “what do you really want from me?” helps.

Catherine:

And even I think we don't know how to deal with the messiness of life, of grief, of emotions.

Sue:

We need to get better because it's real.

Catherine:

One of one of like obviously and some of the like workspaces or volunteer spaces that I lead. There are are safe spaces for people to just be real like that. So a healing group is one of that where we actually teach each other how to be a good listener. What does it look like to just actually sit with somebody in their pain and not feel like you have to do more than just listen, right? Like, what does it look like to be a good listener? That's the Ministry of Presence, right?

But many of us don't know how to be that space. And it's funny because not only just in my work spaces, but also in like everywhere I go, I feel like it's such a sacred space. People do reveal their heart, and I think God allows us to have those spaces. And, you know, I like to tell stories and here's the story actually, you know, I know I told you, ladies, I sent it in the WhatsApp chat to kind of pray, but when we were going for a bike ride, we just ended up in Port Dalhousie randomly. But it was a God thing, right? And actually heard this lady crying out for help was behind this locked gate and had been laying there for four hours and, accidentally, they'd shut this gate and she tried to climb it and actually fell down and couldn't move. And people had come by, heard her, and walked away because they were afraid, probably. Didn't know what it was all about, but because we came over, she said, I was just actually crying out to God and saying, you know, I've lost my husband. I don't feel like I'm here for any reason. God. And then you showed up is what her words. Right? And then you showed up and got to be able to listen to her, connect with her, and actually stayed connected with her. So I love…

Tracy:

… and don't we want to be that kind of person? And then you showed up. And then you showed up like that's what we want I am, but I think we want to be in the world like that whole thing of being seen and heard. Yeah. I've known.

Catherine:

Yeah. It's a cry for heart to be seen and heard. Yeah.

Tracy:

And then we shut it off. Yeah. You said we shut it off and we disconnect.

Sue:

I was just going to say it's a choice, isn't it? Like we can shut it off or turn it on and. And we have to have the, the presence to be able to do that. And when I say presence, I mean maybe God's presence in us as well as the presence of mind and the stability. And unfortunately, Val's the person that you shared with didn't have that presence, that didn't make the choice to even try - It sounds like no judgment - but, and at other times you come across a stranger in need and, and you make the choice to, to be the help that they, that they need. Yeah.

Catherine:

You know No, I honestly, you know, when we're talking about you know, feeling like shutting down or feeling like opening up, I don't feel like emotions are weak. I actually thought they were connection points. Yeah. So I would try to connect with people and not discern whether it was a person who knew how to navigate or, you know, was safe right? Right. So those are huge pieces.

Sue:

The fact is that that vulnerable, honest sharing with trusted people.

Catherine:

Yeah. Right.

Sue:

Trusted people is healing brings sincere connection. And trust is something that grows. It's it's I have to say that within this group, the conversations we've had some of them very difficult, whether they were part of a podcast or outside of the podcast, every time we have a real conversation, it builds trust and and we can feel that. So we're just a little microcosm of what really goes on out there. What we humans seek from the very beginning, like humanity, we seek connection from the moment we're born. We want to make eye contact with our mother. We want skin touch with our parent. You know that that's so important now that they do in hospitals with skin to skin touch. You know, and especially when we're hurting. And we need connection and support and community that God created us for you know, we end up behaving in a way that pushes people away. We hide, we retreat, we isolate, we try to self protect, which actually takes away what we - the protection that we need because others can stand around us. I have a group of women in my life we refer to ourselves as the Elephant Sisters.

And there's a beautiful thing that happens in nature. We've been referencing nature a lot this season. But Elephant Sisters, when a mama elephant is giving birth, the other elephants say they're female elephants gather around her, turn their backs to her face outward, and watch for danger. And then when that baby is born, they kick up the dust to help dry it off, and they trumpet to celebrate its arrival.

Tracy:

That’s so neat.

Sue:

Yeah, a circle of elephant sisters. It's protection, it's practical help, and it's celebration. Yeah. Isn't that amazing?

Tracy:

That’s amazing.

Sue:

I mean, that is at a time when that calf, that mama is the most vulnerable. So…

Val:

We could definitely learn from that.

Sue:

Couldn’t we??And… Yes. Oh, Catherine. Speak.

Catherine:

Well the thing is most of us were hurt in community. Yeah, yeah. And we can heal and community in, in these safe places. Right. Yeah. And I love I love your elephant sisters. Like that picture. Right. We're not holy huddles. Like we're actually linking arms to allow people to be safe. And I, I just feel led to say if this is okay, like, if you're listening right now, puzzlers and you don't actually have a group of elephants or you don't have a group, we're going to put it in. The show notes that there are healing groups made specifically for people to have safe places and understand how to walk with each other in their struggles. So yeah, I just wanted to say that.

Sue:

Yeah, it's, vital and and sharing our emotions in that safe place with people that we trust is something that Jesus himself modelled. You know, I love that the the shortest verse in the Bible, which so many people are so pleased that they can quote… with me now… Jesus wept. Why is that? Why did he make that it's own verse? It stands apart. It's not one line in amongst others, Jesus wept. It's in and of itself a complete message. And and I really think God wanted us to know. Look, yeah, he he showed his emotions. He didn't hide them. He wasn't always in complete control, even though he was always in complete control. Right? He was expressive and vulnerable.

And another very well known Bible verse. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son right there, that’s suffering! He gave his only begotten son. That's a that's a sign of of suffering, a beautiful example of suffering, but not even as great as Christ on the cross. The most incredible example of suffering. That brings us what? The greatest example of connection. The greatest means of connection. So when we embrace that struggle and that suffering, it’s… To me it seems so clear. And yet we, we still fight against it…

Val:

I’m sort of hearing redemption from what you just said, you know, like we are broken. Our relationships are broken, our communities are broken. But Jesus came to redeem us. So we need to look at how we can practice this redemption. To bring back community, to bring back relationships. Yeah. And that's why he died. For us to be the body of Christ, to to be with each other, to work with each other.

Sue:

Yeah. Because the opposite is true, Val. Like when you look at Instagram Reels and all these pretty plastic happy people. It does the exact opposite. It's there is actually something called Instagram Depression syndrome. (Catherine: Yeah. Yeah.) It's a syndrome. It is something that is happening in our society today where people feel so isolated because, well, I don't have that life. My life isn't that good. I can't talk to that person because they're perfect and you know, so-called perfection, shininess, it absolutely causes isolation and division and all the things that God didn't make us for.

So, okay, let's move into one last question that I let's let's talk about a time when you stepped out in faith and courage. Let's wrap this up with the good news. And you got an honest response about your situation. You gave an honest response. You got an honest response. However that plays out. Is there a time in your life when you felt the connection through honest sharing?

Tracy:

I had a really neat one just recently with someone that I'm just beginning to develop a relationship with. But your word connection in which is what is so neat within that, and it was just kind of getting coffee before a meeting was starting, you know, that quick kind of all gathering place. And she did just so polite. How are you? And I just said exhausted. But what I was so aware of was that she just immediately she came with this beautiful, oh me to like work is so overwhelming and it didn't continue long. I was being called away, but I just was so aware of that. It only took that 20 seconds and something - another step in our growing friendship clicked into place. Just with those few simple exchanges. Yeah.

Sue:

So beautiful. Simple,

Tracy:

Simple. It's not as hard as we create it sometimes. Yeah,

Val:

Yeah, I remember, once I, I was going to go to a funeral, visitation, and I just didn't want to go. I felt I was dealing with my own grief and sadness, and I thought, I don't have anything to give, but I… I knew I just had to do this. So I went, and I don't think I've ever felt a connection like that before at a visitation. Like I found myself looking into their eyes and feeling, and I could tell. They could feel that. I could feel like, yeah, it was just it was so different. So, so much more depth and so beautiful. And it didn't drain me like I thought it would. It actually, you know, it brought me true resonance.

Sue:

True resonance!

Val:

Yeah. True resonance. Yeah.

Sue:

That’s beautiful.

Catherine:

I have a story and you know we like to do grocery shop. This one’s in Costco. But yeah my son when he was really young had some health struggles. And I was in Costco and somebody said, how are you doing? Like, I just saw somebody that I knew from church. And I said, well, actually, we're going through this real struggle with our son, and let's talk a little bit about what was going on for him and his health. And, she had a daughter who had gone through like a similar kind of struggle and was able to be support, community, understanding, encouragement, prayer. And I felt seen and heard. Yeah. And held

Sue:

There’s that “I feel seen” that so .. and even Val, when you were talking about looking into somebody's eyes - don’t even need to speak. Sometimes it's just I get I get it. You, So good. For me, I this is such a marked story in my life. I was going through an extended illness and my house was a mess. And my friends heard me saying that that I was it was, bothering me that my house was such a mess because I had to be in it all the time. I was sick and the dust was accumulating. So five friends showed up one day to clean my house, and that was really hard for me to take. I was very much a perfectionist at the time and used to being the doer. I'm the helper. And so there they arrived in my house and my one girlfriend was actually up on my dining room table cleaning my light fixture, and she kind of looked at me looking at her, and she came over and she said, you know, this is so good. We've all been wondering how we could help you. What we could do, and nobody knew what to do. And so thank you for letting us come and do this because we feel better. And it gave me this different picture of allowing people in to give them the gift.

Catherine:

Yes, yes, it’s a gift

Sue:

…of giving to you. It's the gift of giving. You give to get. It's just it's a beautiful cycle. We all know how good it feels to help somebody else out. So when you share and say, I could really use a meal on Tuesday because life is crazy next week and somebody can make you a pot of soup. Yeah. Like, it's just it's really quite a beautiful, thing, you know? So, it seems to me that we're we're being lied to by that Thief. Who would keep us out of community, the way God intended it. Because this is a conversation that started about talking about our struggles, and it's really very beautiful. It's not a scary thing. It's not a it's not a heavy thing. It's not an onerous thing. It's really kind of beautiful. When I think of the different stories that we've shared today. I love that

Val:

It’s reminded me of the song. And I, I wrote down some of the words as I was considering this topic, but, you know, when I'm in my clinic and I'm ready to receive, someone's story, that's one thing. But if I'm in a grocery store, you know, I'm a bit more task oriented and I'm not really open to authenticity. And I think that as I'm thinking this through, that's a bit of a wasted opportunity. (Catherine: Yes.) You know, like, I would like to be more authentic, even in the day to day. So, this song is Pilgrim by John Mark McMillan, and it says: There is a heavenly city that I'm compelled to find. Though I love the flowers and trees and the smell of the grinding sea and all the beautiful things here in this life. I'm a pilgrim here on this side of the great divide. I'm a pilgrim here. But I'll walk with you for a while. Walk with you for a while. I'll love you here for a while. I'll hold you here for a while. I'll love you. I'll love you here for a while. It just reminds me that it would be neat to consciously walk through our day to day activities with this in mind, to have an open posture of love, and just to simply be aware that we're part of this human experience and that we're all in this together.

Sue:

Yeah, absolutely. And admittedly, you know, the grocery store isn't always the safest place for that kind of connection. You know, like you're allowed to be in task mode and not open handed, open-hearted mode all the time. But there's nothing wrong with saying, you know, thanks for asking, I'm actually going through some really rough stuff right now. Do you have time for coffee this week? Like we can defer a little bit and give ourself, you know, time and, appropriateness.

Catherine:

But I love what you're saying to Val like that. We would understand like Ann Voskamp says that all of life is this Eucharist. You know, this, like, continual connection with God and with others and to be, like, awake and aware as opposed to, like just going through the motions. One of my friends called it like divine interruptions to have that margin, to be able to say, this is a divine interruption.

Val:

Yeah, sometimes I know people, some people don't like crowds, but I love them. And if I'm in like a stadium with a large crowd, sometimes it is close my eyes and hear like the volume of voices and the buzz of energy all around me. And just, I just feel connected to, like, the human race in that experience. Right?

Tracy:

And it makes me think of a quote that I love is that we're all just walking each other home. And that's sharing a pathway, sharing the journey. It's the pilgrimage thing that is so in my heart and you know, you never know who's going to cross your path and come alongside. But like you said, in the ordinary, in the places just being available, because you may only even meet that person, for like a heartbeat. And then their path takes them somewhere else. But when it comes alongside that connection and the life that gets released in that when you bring God's presence close to precious hearts - and having eyes to see and ears to respond to that, yes, when others need it, - is both a gift and a learned practice, I think.

Sue:

Yeah, yeah. We never know when our reality will connect with somebody else's reality. You know, there's that that, that other kind of phrase that goes around that, you know, everybody's hurting, so be gentle. Walk gently.

Catherine:

You never know what other people are going through. Right.

Sue:

Then if you take that moment and I think that's the, the challenge, I'd like to leave with our listeners for this week. It's really a moment of pause. So if you run into somebody this week, when you run into somebody this week and they ask you, how are you? Pause and see if there is a way that you can respond in a way that is honouring of what you're really going through. It doesn't mean you need to divulge everything and get into a really deep conversation. But likewise, when you encounter someone else and you ask how they are, pause and wait for the real answer. Invite the real answer.

Catherine:

I love that. I love that challenge because pain can make your world feel very small. And you're literally asking us, how do we enlarge that space. Yeah. Safely. Yeah.

Sue:

So just before, I hand this over to Val to talk about next week, I do want to leave us with this one last thought, I think it's just such a beautiful picture. Ironically, this poem came across my Instagram feed, which is, proof that Instagram is not all shiny, e happy people. But this is a really beautiful poem written by John Rodel.

Vulnerability doesn't mean telling others what happened to us from across a cafe table,

or from behind a microphone,

and then going home from the experience,

feeling just as alone as we did before.

Vulnerability means sewing your human heart blanket to other heart blankets.

It's about connection.

We don't share for status.

We do it for synergy.

We don't confess for clout.

We do it to build community.

We tell to invite others to tell theirs.

It's the sacred cycle of storytelling.

We gather in a circle of trust and say, here is my journey.

Then we listen to the other journeys that are shared.

We take space, then we give space.

We pour. Then we absorb.

We speak.

We are storytellers. Then we are witnesses.

Vulnerability isn't just about grave digging in our past to expose our skeletons.

It's about sowing quilts.

Here is my patch.

Here is your patch

Here is their patch.

Here is us.

Here is our story.

Says so much

All:

beautiful. It's so beautiful… I love…

Sue:

so… deep breath. Val is going to host us next week. I want to thank you for joining us this week, and I can't wait for another puzzling conversation. Now, where are you taking us?

Val:

Yes, I'm super excited to host episode number three. So grab your pillows and we're going to be puzzling over the question why is it so hard to rest?

Sue:

So looking forward to it.