Episode 2 - Wondering About Worry

Main Points:

Val’s “Worry Story” - 0:45

Romans 8:28 - Can God use anything, even worry, for our good?

Fear in the Night and Sue’s Statue - 15:50

ALL ONE - 22:31

Is it Ok to ask God for anything? Does He always respond to us?

Tracy’s Trip - 24:38

Catherine’s Mystery Package - 27:18

For more info on Val's Book "The Worry-Free Challenge", please go to www.valdevries.com

Transcript

Val - 0:02

Hello, all. Welcome to episode number two of the puzzlers podcast. I am Val de Reese and I will be your host for this episode, where we puzzle over the topic of worry. Last episode, I left you with a question. Should Christians worry? today? We may not answer that question directly. But I hope through our discussions that you will be inspired to contemplate and puzzle over this question more deeply. Joining me today are three lovely ladies. Sue. Hello, Catherine. Hello, and Tracy. Hi, how's everybody today?

Sue - 0:38

Great, not worried.

Catherine - 0:43

So, glad to be here.

Val - 0:45

Awesome. As I said earlier, I'd like to begin a conversation around the topic of worry. For me, where he has played a significant role in my life. I grew up in an extended family where the women were ate a lot, and it was just kind of a running joke. That's just the VanderVeen way we worry about everything. So over my lifetime, I developed worry patterns. And then when I had my kids, my patterns got even more prevalent. I never really realized throughout my life that I had these worry patterns. I just thought that everyone thought this way. I didn't even realize it was unhealthy. Especially being a mom, I just figured everyone worries a lot about their children, right. But at one point, I got quite sick. For years, I struggled with different symptoms. I tried different diets, taking out different things, adding in different things, spending a fortune on natural paths. And eventually I found out that I was celiac. I took gluten out of my diet. And this was really big deal for me. So my body started to get stronger. But struggling with sickness for that many years, I had developed even deeper worried patterns. So I always had a mind's eye on my body looking for changes or anything that felt off. And then I would adjust things. And then these worry patterns started to make their way into other areas of life. My kids, my husband, my work. I think subconsciously, I believed that if I had an eye on everything, I could protect it and keep anything from going wrong. So as you can imagine, this is an exhausting way to live. And I was slowly wearing myself out. It's interesting because my body was getting stronger. But I could only get so far because I was wearing myself out on the other end. I think because this was becoming so all consuming the worried thoughts, I finally began to realize that my thought life wasn't healthy. And then I started to get frustrated with myself. I'm thinking I'm a Christian, I should be able to trust God, I shouldn't worry about everything like this and have this anxiety. You know, what's wrong with me. And so one specific day, I was walking to Starbucks, and I just laid it out to God. And I told God, I don't know why I don't trust you. And I acknowledged I knew this was hurting me. This was hurting my family, and it was getting in the way of my purpose. And then I specifically addressed the Holy Spirit. And I said, you know, you say you're the great counselor. So I'm asking you for counsel right now. I just really need a thoughts overhaul. And I know I can't do this without you. So good. So that day I committed to walk this out, I would set and I would listen to what the Holy Spirit had to say to me about worry. And myself. And I wrote it all down. And I did this for four years. From this journey, I learned that the Holy Spirit is an amazing counselor. I mean, how could he not be? He knew me when I was born, he knows the roots. He sees my heart, He sees everything. And in this God showed me things about myself and about himself in such a careful and creative way. He knows when things need to be peeled back, and he knows when and he knows when to apply a healing balm, like no one else can. And as for those manuscripts that I wrote in the four years, they're currently being published into a book called The worryfree challenge. Yeah. The worryfree Challenge is a six week solo challenge and it gives the reader an opportunity to spend time with God and just converse about worry and anxiety and just allow God to speak revealing brokenness and providing healing beautiful. So where am I now? You know that trust exercise people do, where you fall back into someone else's arms and if you fully trust them, you give your full weight Well, I would say I can do that with God no, where I could never do that before. And sometimes I still put a foot back. And some times it takes me quite a while before I can really see myself that way. And there are times when I maybe still can't even, you know, yeah. But he was faithful to me. Look at me. Yeah, I'm gonna tear it out. Yeah. Cuz he has, he's so faithful. So beautiful. That's my story. That's the worry part of my story. Anyways, small snippet. But that's what makes me I suppose, the expert that I am on this topic, not a degree in worry, but an experience of worry and a Holy Spirit infusion for four years. And so that's why I bring that to the table today.

Sue - 5:59

It's remarkable, really, Val, because although I haven't known you for long, when you describe who you were, I feel like I know a totally different person, like you can see in you the journey that God's brought you on. My husband would agree. Yeah, it's beautiful. And I'm not gonna sit here and like, I'm sure you still do worry, you know, but but. But you're not that person. You you exude such a calm about you, actually. And I feel it when I'm with you. Kind of overflows. So that's a beautiful God story.

Val - 6:35

It is. It's amazing what he can do in a person.

Tracy - 6:38

And I think we want to say thank you because you honor us with your story. Like, You honor us with that vulnerability that that we we and the bigger we can identify with. You honor us.

Val - 6:52

Yeah, I wasn't expecting tears. That's, that's, uh, that's new for me. I'm not really quick to tears. But yeah, when you think about where he's brought you, and we think about just that, that you see that in me and that he can bring you to a new place. It's just, it's just, you're just become in awe of the goodness of God.

Catherine - 7:13

You're smiling while you were crying? Right. Like it's that brutal, bru tal, bru-tiful, right. (Laughter) But the it was, it was hard. And thank you for sharing. Like, your story is sacred to us. And I know I'm really connecting with it. Right, my eye when you're talking about your childhood, and that I really connect with that patterns and not having tools and thinking it's normal and, or to hide it. Right. Yeah.

Val - 7:40

Yeah. So I that's brings leads me to asking how, how is your experience with worry? Have you guys struggled with this as well? Is it something you see in yourself? Or maybe somebody else?

Catherine - 7:56

I'd love to share is that okay? So, as a child, I worried a lot. And then I worried about worrying. And I felt guilty and awful for not being able to trust and I thought I was a bad Christian. It was a cycle, right? This cycle. So it wasn't until my 20s. And it was actually through trauma, it was through another painful circumstance, like you're saying, you're going through these challenges, right. And that is where I actually learned that I could stop the cycle. And that I could change my thought patterns. And I could claim trust instead of fear, and how to hold on to that truth and pivot my brain and my body, instead of those things taking over, being able to calm down and taking my thoughts captive. So past ways of dealing with stress was just a cycle is unhealthy cycle. And I learned there that's the same thing as you did like, what what are my actual patterns that I'm using to cope? So I had a lot of lies. I thought that if I did everything right, I would keep myself safe. I thought mistakes and failing, made me unsafe. I thought what people believe like what they thought about me, was like the highest thing and that I had to worry about what they thought about me. And then I thought what they thought controlled me. And it feels my fear. And so I thought I had to please people, I thought I had to give up my needs. And all of these, like not really aware of the thoughts that I had that was actually leading me captive. That was huge. And do I still struggle? I love that you said that. So I just really connect with that. Because Absolutely, and I actually think this side of heaven. We are all going to at points, but I love what you said it's like a warrior. So we get up stronger, like we're aware of and we have tools to pivot that right. He says 365 times do not be afraid. And that is not because he's saying, you know, don't do that. He's saying, I want to encourage you.

Tracy - 9:46

Invitation

Catherine - 9:47

Right.

Sue - 9:48

I recognize this is real.

Val - 9:49

Yeah. And I recognize it's hard.

Sue - 9:51

Yeah.

Val - 9:51

And I want to encourage you.

Tracy - 9:53

You don't need to be afraid, I promise.

Catherine - 9:56

So the goal for me became, and I think that's what you're saying, to see where I need to calm down, stop the ruminating, stop the cycle, and get out of that cycle. And I love what you're saying about like being actually aware of your body. Because a lot of times with my clients, I find that they're not even aware where they're like actually having stress, right? Like, I think that connects with your massage therapy, right, like, actually being aware. So where do I feel fear? What's my worry cycle? And then how do I actually find what I need to calm and unhook my body and my brain, so I can actually make choices about my belief. So I love that I love your story. I'm thankful for you.

Tracy - 10:36

And I love in there and in what you said, it's that phrase, the patterns of worry, right? And how do we create the space? That's the pause? And yeah, and I mean, I've journeyed, I've journeyed with worry with releasing anxiety, fear, those kinds of places in life. Most recently, for me, it's been this understanding about myself that, like, neurologically, anxiety can be a real thing. I mean, I've had cue EEG brain mapping that says, I kind of went home. Oh, okay. So what I've come to recognize is that anxiety, for me, is different than worry, anxiety is my highly overactive almost off the charts without assistance, when it doesn't have assistance brain. And there's gift in that too, because it's part of what lets me think 10 steps ahead, and, and those places, but I need to think three. And so that place of anxiety, not being the same as worry. But then that patterns of worry and creating the pause, I think the thing within that that has really connected for me is that I am someone who wonders, I am curious, I am a wonder. But a helpful tool or piece of where I am now is that wonder is either going to lead me towards worry, or towards worship. And I increasingly as I walk this journey, I can pause a little bit more and go, Okay, I'm starting to feel this even physiological thing that's taking me down a road, that's worry. So I can walk backwards to this place, and then shift.

Val - 12:21

It's interesting that you say that in my book, I just talk about that a little bit how I think when we worry, it's our imagination, in a way, which is a gift. And it can be used, like you said, to worry or can be used to worship. And we can ask God to control our imagination, right to lead us down a negative path of what could happen next. Or to lead us into this, like, his greatness, his hope, and the imagination of what he could do. You know, like, we have two paths to take with our imagination. And so that's, that's really interesting.

Tracy - 12:58

I mean, for me, those two paths are either anticipation or an expectation for me expectation is I have to plan or figure out like, I this is what I'm expecting. We're anticipation is just like, leaning in actively to the goodness that can come. So

Catherine - 13:18

Super connecting with your neuroscience. Like, just that whole, like what actually is happening inside of us when something's taking over. It's like a, like a well worn groove, a big train track. And what's going on inside of us, we're going threat, threat threat, right? And then we have these ways that we've dealt with threat and it's like, is it actually a threat?

Sue - 13:40

Well, they start spinning, right? It's like that thing that happens in the middle of the night when your mind isn't really functioning properly. But something's on your mind. And you just, you cycle through it again, and again. And again. And again. And, and while I haven't dealt with sort of ongoing anxiety, or worry me for sure, who hasn't had those periods of life where just something has you completely distracted and bogged down in that in that cycle? I mean, it's, it's, it's bound to happen. And I think for me, I mean, I've got my my triggers, right. For me, it has tended to revolve around financial security that's been especially in the last 10 years and you know, came out of a marriage situation where financial security became my my trigger point. And for sure, I could get lost for a couple of weeks or at one point a couple of months in a in a spinning cycle. But I would agree with you Tracy like what I love about that is it I've I have come to find that worry pushes me into God. That is my that's my way out. That's That's because he is the one who can answer all the questions that no human being can answer. You know.

Tracy - 14:57

He helps you breathe.

Sue - 14:59

Oh yeah.

Tracy - 15:00

Can't take a breath.

Sue - 15:01

Yeah

Tracy - 15:01

In the middle of that.

Sue - 15:03

Yeah.

Val - 15:03

Yeah, that's really good Sue, like one of my favorite verses is Romans eight, verse 28. And it says that in all things, God works for the good of those who love Him. And I feel like that was a big release for me to realize, like, even my worry, he can work, he will work. Even that, for my good, and for His pleasure and for His kingdom. So do you guys believe that? Like, I hear you saying that in your story? Like, how does that How has that man like, shown itself in your lives where God, you know, turn something that you thought he could not possibly use for good into good for yourself or for His glory or for the Kingdom?

Sue - 15:50

Well, I was showing you guys earlier, I have this little statuette kind of little thing, it's God's hand with a baby in it. And that sits beside my bed, because if I'm going to worry, I am that person who worries in the middle of the night, raise your hand if that applies to you. I see hands going up all over the world. But, but that is where I go in the middle of the night, if I don't curl up in the lap of God in the palm of God's hand. I can be lost for hours and losing sleep and getting nowhere. You guys know like, the next day is even worse, because you're, then you're tired on top of everything else. And so...

Val - 16:32

Tell us about what do you picture when you're...

Sue - 16:35

I literally picture myself little. And in God's lab with my head against his chest so I can hear his heartbeat. Yeah. And his arms around me and I feel him breathing. And I tend to be a real breathing person. Anyhow, I really do believe in that. The deep breaths and where they can just calm your whole body. It's, it's physiological and psychological. It's spiritual. And so I breathe and if I can hear the breath of God, and breathe with him, that's where I go in the middle of the night, to that really close space of breathing with God, because it takes my mind off and out of the spin. So So for me, worry, worry brings me closer to God. And it's and not in some finger in my dimple, Pollyanna kind of fixes everything. It doesn't i The problem is still there, I still have to deal with whatever's got me worried. But in the moment of that spinning worry, where nothing's being solved. You need an exit strategy, so that you can function right. And overall, I've become closer to God.

Val - 17:46

Even your story like that the night is the hardest, but the night becomes the most beautiful, right? And that's my, that's my experience to the nights used to be the worst. And now the nights are when I feel the most close to God, I feel I don't have a statue like that. But that's where I feel his presence the most.

Tracy - 18:05

I had a year where my word was behold. And it also means in its roots that Etymology and other geek be held. Yes, yes. And in terms of the middle of the night, that was a time where God just said so clearly to my heart Tracee the night time is not the time to think it's the time to be held. And so I would wake up, and I would hear that, you know, just then in my thoughts again, after that point, I'm going, Okay, this is not a time to think this is just a time to be held. I can think about this in the morning. Don't have to think about this right now. It's a time to be held, and he does hold us that's what is so amazing. When you talk about that wonderful counselor, or that wonderful one who who actually does come alongside in the middle of the night and doesn't leave us in the middle of our whatever's

Catherine - 18:56

I love that. I think like for most of us, we can keep ourselves busy with something else we can get focused and occupied, but in the middle of the night, that's really where you know, so it gets back. Right? And so how do we pivot that and I really, really connect with everybody every saying about for me sometimes it's it's breath prayers, like, I trust you God, I trust you. God actually had a season where I slept with my Bible. And God said the same thing like be held with me. And that like listening to his heartbeat and understanding that he's right closest that focus, right, like turning my focus. And so yeah...

Val - 19:32

Well, it's interesting because a lot of my clients have trouble sleeping on their backs. And it's because you're so exposed and vulnerable to the elements, you know, you just don't feel safe. And so this whole concept of being held is so beautiful. You know, it just you feel safe.

Tracy - 19:50

Safe, safe, that's a powerful word.

Sue - 19:53

Oh, it is.

Tracy - 19:54

That is a powerful, powerful, powerful word.

Catherine - 19:55

Yeah

Sue - 19:56

Yeah, it ducktails in with trust too, which is something we've, we've always anyway often comes up in our conversations. But if, if God is that big if you can visualize and and embrace that he's that big and holding you then that really does help with the trust.

Catherine - 20:16

Yeah, for sure. I used to worry, because I thought I wouldn't have what I needed, right? Like, I wouldn't have what I needed situations out of my control. And then that realization, like he's not worried, he's not worried about me, like, he knows I have everything I need. And I don't need to be either. He really does love me, he really does see me, he really is working for my good. And for me, the worry, like you're talking about, like a core need, like financial needs, right? So, for me, it was like, I can't make it through another pain or loss or grief, right? Like the worry about how those things. And God pivot in me from thinking like, every time I go through something, it's not going to be like, change change that's hard and scary and painful. But who actually wants to grow me? And she wants to grow me. And so in that, like working to all working all things to good, he's not a far off. He's not go hey, get through that. I'll come back when you're done. He's like, actually, I'm gonna give you every tool I want to walk right beside you. So that actually made me curious, right? To be on the lookout, like, what's he doing now? What's he gonna give me now? What's what tools you're gonna give me? It's kind of...

Tracy - 20:25

Growth opportunities.

Catherine - 21:32

Yes

Tracy - 21:32

I have learned to give thanks. And like, you can say there's a growth opportunity. Thank you for this growth. Opportunity doesn't mean it feels good.

Val - 21:42

Yeah, it still surprises me when I consider how when I asked God to meet me and my fear and my worry that he did. And I, I don't think that sometimes we ask him enough. And even when we do ask, we asked flippantly, and we don't really expect him to answer. But I just want our listeners to really know like, they can ask God for anything at any time. And he's always listening. And he will respond. He, it may not look like what you want it to look like, but he will respond in some way. So I just want to put that out to you ladies to bring some inspiration to our listeners. What are some times when you've asked him to meet you in something, and he did that big or small?

Sue - 22:31

A time comes to mind. Many years ago, I was probably again out on my own for maybe two years. And wondering what God had next for me because my life had radically changed. Right? I you know, the life that I had seen for myself was no longer the life I was leading. And a friend of mine, my best friend was going away on a on a trip. And so I decided to take some intentional time with God, like while you're gone. I'm going on a honeymoon with God, just the two of us. And I dropped my daughter off at school and I was driving back to my condo and talking to God and saying, Well, here I am going on my solo vacation with you. Like all alone. This is great, all alone. And then very quickly, when into a very bad spiral of am I always going to be alone. Alone is not how I pictured my life alone is not who you made me. Alone sucks. I don't want to be alone. I don't want to be alone. And I got home. And I said now where do I go and he said just start writing, you know, just start writing. So I started writing alone. All I could write down was alone alone alone. And then all of a sudden I saw it and if you can picture in your mind the word alone, and all of a sudden I saw it's not alone. It's all one and he totally took a loan and turned it into all one come away and be all one with me. You are not alone. We are all one. And at the time I wrote it and I did this long extended version of it and it was quite esoteric and all that kind of stuff. But it was so real and so comforting. And it came out of a really desperate place of I did not want to be alone and he said you're not you're all one we will be all one.

Tracy - 24:38

I love the word desperate because sometimes we can think we're asking God for something. But sometimes we don't even know we're asking and it's these desperate cries like you came to set apart a honeymoon like that kind of place which is beautiful that intentionality but I think sometimes for ourselves and then for our listeners and listeners some I'm so we don't even know we've asked, but we've kind of gone Hell yeah. What on earth is going on? What do I do and like in our context of worry and anxiety, and one of those places like a lot of my worry is I've got to make it okay, I've got to figure out what the gift is. I am a planner, I have those gifts, those skills. And my piece that really came from that that desperate cry was in. In 2007, I took my mom, I went with my mom on a dream trip to Scotland, and I had plant plant. And we were gone for a month and it was beautiful. But the first day getting on the bus of our tour, the guide came up to me and she said, Oh, so we were getting off the tour a little early, and that was all good. But she said, there's a bit of a problem, like you're an hour away from where you think you're going to be. And all of a sudden, all of the plans were like, gone look like what on earth, I'm in a different country, I'm responsible for my mother, I don't know what we're gonna do. But out of this, this is that Romans 8:28, to God taking even that desperate cry of help. I didn't even know I didn't pray to him at that time. It was more like what the is going on, right? Like what is happening. But what came out of that was one of my clearest life truths that he's ever invited me to live into. Because we're driving away on this bus, you know, heading north beautiful, beautiful life experience. And I just heard him speak to my heart. And it's right back to our nighttime peace. He just said, rest in Me, and leave the rest with me. And to continually come back to that place of rest of trust, of knowing that he's got this even preparing for these podcasts like him saying, I've got this, I've got you. And, and the trip itself, like it came together even better than we could have planned. And what I had planned, which was still good. Move moved us. And he had better and more on point. So I love that sometimes we're not even asking him, but he's always hearing us. Yeah.

Catherine - 27:18

I love that. I love that Tracy, I have two really kind of funny stories, because I love that you said like flippantly because I've to circumstances where I asked him something and didn't really think he was going to answer in the way that he did. And I love that because he's so diverse and how he answers right, he can answer through somebody else he can answer through something creative, because he can answer through rearranging letters and help you see right new truths. And so yeah, I had gone from being an educator and being a teacher into kids ministry, and was in, you know, we were just trying to renovate the space. And I kind of flippantly said, God, could you just drop some new chairs down, because these are like rickety and broken and everything. And literally, I just was kind of touring different church ministries. And then and then the first person I went to said, You know what, we've got these chairs. In this back room we write, like, where it's like, well, like you care about every detail guide. And my second one, we've all been laughing about, like being pregnant and all of those things. And this was actually my story where it's like, between a land between and really not knowing where to go next. I had resigned my teaching position, I'd gone into ministry, and it was called out of that and, and was going, I knew I wasn't supposed to go back to teaching wasn't sure. And I'd be going like, what do I do God? What do I do? And he kept saying, I love you (laughter) and I am like no, no, what do I do? I get it, I get it but give me some information here, God. And I literally heard him say, you're gonna get a package in the mail, and you'll know what to do. And I was laughing with my friends going. I feel like Sarah from the Bible, like I'm gonna get a package in the mail right? And I didn't even connect it one day, I was going out with my family. And there was a package at the post office now you know, the lead in and so you're gonna connect it but I did not. And it was like this whole Enfamil congratulations, Catherine, you're expecting another baby. We have four kids. We weren't having anymore, right? Like, and I was like, I don't think this is for me. And I tried to give it back to the lady. It's like no, no, it came in your name. And God like really spoke in a few different ways. Like you are pregnant with hope. Hope was going to be my daughter. We have four boys and I don't regret that. I love my boys to bits but hope is the baby I carry from the things that I've walked through. Hope will show right through your skin and I just pray that that will be what our view what our listeners are getting today is some hope.

Tracy - 29:38

And don't miss that one line. Hope will shine right through your through skin

Catherine - 29:42

yeah, through your skin.

Tracy - 29:43

That is beautiful.

Catherine - 29:44

Like that's you Val. You're being transparent right now.

Tracy - 29:47

And glowing. Quite frankly. You're right. Hope is shining right through your skin. Yes.

Catherine - 29:54

Hallelujah.

Val - 29:56

Well, it was really great to have those encouragement just to hear You know, how God sees us, He knows our heart, He knows our the roots, and he, he has the great counselor. He can turn anything for good and for His glory, even something that we don't think he possibly could. And that he will meet us when we ask him, and he has our wholeness on his heart all the time. And it's just so good to hear examples of that. And, like, it just encourages us to know that He is real. And he is with us, and he has for us 100% Okay, so thank you, everyone for joining today to just dialogue and puzzle a little bit about worry, because sometimes, let's be honest, it can be puzzling. But God is good. Yeah. Next episode, episode number three. Sue will be our host. And Sue, do you want to pose a question for our listeners?

Sue - 31:00

I do. Much like today's topic about worry. It's not something that you you sort of get excited about. Oh, yeah, we're gonna sit and talk about worry. But I do love sharing with you guys. I mean, it's, it is encouraging. And so the next time we are going to be looking at is there anything beautiful about grief? Yeah, deep breath. Yeah. Deep breath. That's where we're going next.

Val - 31:27

Well, thank you, Sue. Thank you, Catherine. Thank you, Tracy. And thank you to all of our listeners for joining us for episode number two, and we'll see you at episode number three.