Episode 4 - Finding Our Way Through Overwhelm

Main points of the episode:

In this episode, we discuss …

1. A one-room schoolhouse encouragement – “Rest if you must, but don’t you quit!” - 2:15

2. When “FINE” isn’t fine. - 4:54

3. Powerlessness, David and Goliath moments, and financial vulnerability - 6:44

4. When life’s challenges are back-to-back-to-back and triggers to overwhelm - 10:19

5. Physical overwhelm and “How am I going to do my life like this?” - 12:37

6. What helps – or who helps – to bring me through? - 14:59

7. “Who gets my white flag?” - 20:05

8. Val’s nephew and parlaying ‘just being loved into our own spirits’. - 21:41

9. Margins, breathing, and not always saying ‘yes’ and creative rest - 28:18

10. Catharine’s “quit list” - 30:54

11. Distinguishing between busy and hurried - 35:46

12. Rest, FOR YOU MUST, but don’t you quit! - 37:02

Memorable Sound Bite

- "Rest, FOR you must, but don't you quit!"

And then some selections ...

"... there were challenges back-to-back-to-back, like there had been thing after thing in multiple areas with multiple people with things they were going through, as well as my own life, so I was drained ..."

"... but there were times when I just was like, I don't think I can, I don't know how I'm going to do this. So it's a combination of exhaustion, overwhelm, you know, how am I going to carry on my day? I don't have enough to give, you know ... And yet here we are ... And yeah, here we are."

"I'm just going to hijack this for a minute.... Hijack away!"

"He is our ultimate Who."

" ... we're so beautiful, even without anything attached to it. So, that releases us, if we can understand we are loved."

".. being busy, and being hurried, are not the same thing."

Transcript

Tracy - 0:02

Do you ever want to quit? I want to quit. Do you ever feel overwhelmed? I can feel overwhelmed. So, on that cheery note, welcome, dear listener, to this episode of The Puzzlers where a puzzle piece I'd almost rather not pick up will be the focus of our conversation today - overwhelm. We have each of our Puzzlers here – Val, Sue, Catherine, and, of course, myself, Tracy. Welcome Puzzlers!

[Greetings] Hey, are you doing? I'm doing well, to begin with … Oh, we’ll listen to that when we come back, I'm doing well, and I am.

But to begin with, I want to be completely candid, and draw up my mask a little more for each of you, and for our listeners. When we finished our last recording something in me, again, wanted to simply quit, not because of any of you, and not even because of the depth of our conversation on grief. And listener, if you haven't heard that, I would encourage you to go back and listen to “The Messy Gift of Grief”. That feeling of wanting to just simply quit came in part because life can feel overwhelming. And honestly, there is seldom just one thing that we can point to and say, “This is why I am overwhelmed.” To quote a friend, there are things that on their own are not overwhelming, but together they add up to a brew - quite a brew, I'd say! And I'm tempted to quote from Macbeth, “Double, double toil and trouble/ fire burn and cauldron bubble”. Sometimes the heat just really gets turned up in our lives.

And so, the question that takes us deeper, further than ‘How do we not quit?’ is ‘How do we find our way through the overwhelm?’ Through. That is one of the key words in that question. While there are absolutely things we can do, when it comes to addressing our overwhelm, there is really no easy way around. The way through is through. And when we can do that together, all the better.

Now, if I haven't overwhelmed you right off the start, and you're still with me, let's turn our conversation to how I originally planned to begin this episode, with something from my own life that often helps me through:

When things go wrong, as they sometimes will,

When the road you're trudging seems all uphill,

When the funds are low, but the depts are high,

And you want to smile but you have to sigh,

When care is pressing you down a bit –

Rest, if you must, but don't you quit.

That may sound a bit trite, old fashioned or happy-go-lucky. But for me, in times when I am just done, lines like this from the poem “Don't Quit” by Edgar A. Guest come to mind. Why?

I was, as one sister puts it, a child of my parent’s golden years. They were 41 and 47 when I was born. There were times, given some of my dad's health challenges, when I did not know if he would live to walk me down the aisle at my wedding. He did! I didn't know if my own kids would get to know their grandpa, and, although young, they did! My dad died when I was 33. My world shattered. That may sound melodramatic - I can be that way I love Anne of Green Gables - but that may sound melodramatic, but that is the only word I have for that time in my life.

So, what does this have to do with a poem written in the 1920s? My dad had memorized and recited this poem in the one room schoolhouse of his childhood in the 1930s. We didn't know that. But just weeks before my dad died in 2005 he copied this poem out by hand - very unlike him!- and sent it to his oldest grandson, who was turning 18. That encouragement from grandfather to grandson has become legacy for us all because sometimes things do go wrong; sometimes it does feel like you're trudging all uphill; sometimes funds are low and the debts are high; sometimes you do want to smile but instead you sigh; sometimes care is pressing you down a bit - or a lot Edgar Guest, and my dad, would say, ‘Don't quit!”

These are times when we are exhausted emotionally, physically, spiritually, and to quote the famous football coach Vince Lombardi, ‘Fatigue makes cowards of us all’. These are times when hope can feel very far away and we don't see a way through. Some don't find their way through. That breaks my heart. That in itself is why this is a conversation worth having.

If you'd asked me right before the recording of our last episode, how are you? I would have been tempted to answer with a word that I haven't used, or even felt like using in this way, in probably 15 years. ‘How are you?’ ‘Fine’. 15 years ago, I heard an acronym for ‘fine’ that radically challenged my thinking. Edited slightly for the podcast, but you'll catch my drift. Fine. F.I.N.E. – F’d up Interior, Nice Exterior. That was exactly what I was saying when I said, ‘fine’. Do you ever answer ‘fine’ when you know you aren't? Now in my life, if you asked me that question, you'll likely receive one of two replies. ‘Do you want an honest answer or a polite one?’ Or more, simply, ‘I'm well’. And just for clarity, my answer after the last episode was honest, not ‘fine’. ‘I’m well’, that was the launching pad for me to begin to understand for myself what it means to be well, body, soul and spirit, not just wearing a good girl mask for others to see. I walk in bright, sunny seasons, I also walk in some long, often dark and difficult seasons, still. But now my answer always speaks truth, a truth gleaned from an old hymn and the broken-hearted trust of the writer, Horatio Spafford – ‘Whatever my lot He has taught me to say, even so it is well with my soul.’

So are you well Puzzlers, because now I'm turning to you. The first thought for our conversation that I want to bring to you, if you're willing, will you tell me of a time when you felt overwhelmed, like you wanted to quit? And why?

Sue - 6:44

Well, I'm willing, let's go back to last summer. I run an Airbnb and there were some licensing changes that came into effect municipally and I got shut down for a period of time over a very small infraction. I don't know how much I should say publicly. I mean, everything's legal now. But I ended up having to go through a five-and-a-half month process where I not only didn't have the income from my Airbnb, but I was also putting a lot of money out to deal with the issues that existed. And it broke me, like it really literally, financially broke me. And the reason I was so overwhelmed by it is because I felt it was this David and Goliath kind of feeling, where in my own mind, I'm going, ‘I'm a law abiding citizen. I run a really nice place that people like to come and stay. I'm a responsible host, I'm, uh, I'm a good person. I volunteer in the community, like I felt picked on, I felt overwhelmed by that, that saying, you know, ‘It's against our policy’, or I have no control over it. It's just our policy. And so I was overwhelmed just by the just by the legalities of it. And really feeling like I had no way out other than to just keep paying, keep paying, keep paying, which was overwhelming. That is my, that is my soft spot, it would be financial security. And so, although my Airbnb is, financially, how I have a home, it is the foundation of how I have a home, it was now becoming this huge deficit to me. And I thought, if I don't go through with all of this policy stuff, I lose my home. And if I do, I might lose my home. I really felt like there was no way out. So thankfully, very thankfully, my neighbors supported me. My sister supported me. She works for a planner who came alongside me and helped me get my stuff together. It's fantastic. You know, in the end, it was people who came alongside and I have found that to be the truth so often, right? It's where does our help come from? It's the people that God puts in our lives. I find so often, but...

Tracy - 9:10

....alongside like, that's a really keyword in there, right? And I also heard like, you just express it so well, like I didn't see a way through. I didn't see a way out. And that powerlessness, right, and not even about control. I mean, sometimes the overwhelm is because we were wanting to try to control, but it's not even that that's not what you're even saying there. It's just when something’s so totally out of our hands, and we don't know what to do,

Sue - 9:37

and you don't have choices..

Tracy - 9:39

and you don't have joy don't have choices. You just have to deal with what's in front of you.

Sue - 9:43

Yeah, one step at a time.

Tracy - 9:45

One step

Sue - 9:46

and trust.

Tracy - 9:47

Yeah

Sue - 9:47

Trust.

Catherine - 9:48

I connect so much with what you're saying. I think in overwhelm, there's this sense of like, it's too big, I'm too small. Right? And then I can't see and it's funny because your poem, actually, my mom would say that to me, but I learned not to quit. I learned never quit, don't quit, don't stop, don't leave, don't like don't quit trying, right? And so that was actually dysfunction for me, because neither could I see a way through and I couldn't actually find a way. And so, really recently, I felt very overwhelmed because there were challenges back-to-back-to-back, like there had been thing after thing in multiple areas with multiple people with things they were going through, as well as my own life, so I was drained physically, emotionally, and mentally. And then in the key area, which is I think it resonates with what you're saying, Sue, it was like a trigger area, right, like an area where it's like, oh, I started seeing dysfunction, and had intense fear that it was going to affect a lot of people, because I had seen that before. And so, I already felt like I didn't have the ability to handle more things, and it was harder for me not to get like into old patterns of thinking like the ‘keep trying’, or people please, to be able to speak up, to find my options, to see choices. So, I couldn't see any good options through and I couldn't see any options out. And so, it was more than I could bear. And lots of emotions, lots of values, lots of memories were touched. And so that was that sense of overwhelm?

Sue - 11:21

I get that.

Tracy - 11:23

And I hear something in both of you that I think is really even a question I want to kind of take away and name because you've both touched on those trigger areas. Like can we even step back and, if we can name for ourselves some of what those triggers can be, then it equips us to be able to go - well, for me that one that says Vince Lombardi’s quote, ‘Fatigue makes cowards of us all’ - that was a key one for me, fatigue is one of my triggers. And I remember hearing that and saying, fatigue makes cowards of us all. Like, I'm just tired. I'm not a coward. I'm not cowardly. I just need rest.

Sue - 12:00

And ironically, when we're overwhelmed, that's when we can't sleep.So we are, you know, we are physically and mentally more tired, for sure. Wired and tired.

Val - 12:11

Tracy, explain what you mean by the triggers?

Tracy - 12:14

Well, for Sue, she said she recognized sort of her trigger was financial insecurity or security. For Catherine, it was more of an emotional place. I don't know if you spoke specifically, but it touched on trigger areas in that overwhelm of seeing things in people's areas and, I don’t know, how about you, Val? What are some ... triggers?

Val - 12:38

Yeah, it's interesting because as I hear that, I think I'm thinking of a time I was overwhelmed. And I guess it is sort of my trigger, like my own health would be a trigger for me of overwhelmed, right. And so, there was a time when I got an infection around my heart, and it really at night, it put pressure on my chest, and so I had to sleep sitting up. And so I had like, 10 pillows, and, this went on for two years. I slept sitting straight up. And it was so painful every night that I never, I didn't sleep well. And I just thought, how am I going to do my life like this? And I remember there was days when I'm like, I actually don't think I can go on.

Sue - 13:27

Right. Yes. Yeah, no, I know that feeling.

Val - 13:31

And I don't have that feeling very often, but, and I can pull myself out usually, but there was times when I just was like, I don't think I can, I don't know how I'm going to do this. So as a combination of exhaustion, overwhelm, you know, how am I going to carry on my day? I don't have enough to give, you know

Sue - 13:53

And yet here we are.

Val - 13:54

And yeah, here we are. Yeah, yeah.

Tracy - 13:57

And I think it's helpful to recognize that the overwhelm, like I appreciate you sharing that Val, because the overwhelm, can start or be from other places and spill over like yours was a body overwhelm, like that was that place, and, and it can spill over into our emotions, our thinking, our choosing. But I think also sometimes it's helpful to, well, we can't separate them, but like I've been in a season where I said emotionally and psychologically, it has been overwhelming, physically and spiritually, I'm doing really well. And so, to be able sometimes to find an anchor point, that you aren't overwhelmed. True, you're right, but it spills over, but it's interesting, and I really appreciate that because some people are just dealing with pain, and then they can think oh, well, this is not good in me where maybe it's just rooted in the pain, or like you said the lack of sleep.

Val - 14:51

yeah, chronic pain is is really hard to live with.

Tracy - 14:57

Anything else within that ladies, because the through piece within this when we - how do we keep going, when we feel powerless, when we feel we don't see a way through? I love that Sue talked about the people in our world that are alongside, that come alongside us. We need that.

One of my favorite thoughts from the scriptures is from Hebrews chapter 11. And it says, “Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses,”- and I believe cheering us on!- “let us run with endurance the race set before us.” But before I turn a question over to you Puzzlers, I want to openly acknowledge to you, our listeners, that some of you may feel like you do not have anyone in your corner cheering for you. In fact, if I asked you the question, ‘Who is cheering you on?’ You might say,’ ‘I don't hear any cheers. I don't feel like there's anyone alongside to help me see a way through.’ Our hope, our prayer is for you to know, even if we don't know you, that we are cheering you on. And beyond this, there is a God who cheers for you, and He is your biggest cheerleader. So Val, Sue, Catherine, may I ask you, who is cheering you on? Whose life, whose story, whether you know them personally or not, whether they are still alive or not, who inspires you and gives you the courage to endure, to not quit, and to run the race set out before you. Because also often it's the who, alongside our hearts.

Sue - 16:41

Gee, I’m going to sort of take that in a different direction. And I still think I want to I'm going, I'm just going to hijack this for a minute.

Tracy - 16:48

Hijack away!

Sue - 16:50

… only because although I do have, I've often said to people, my greatest wealth in life is the relationships that I have around me, I am so incredibly grateful and rich and relationships. And I know that that is not everybody's story, like you just so clearly pointed out. But for me, often before I turn outward to the people around me, I retreat. That's my natural inclination is to sort of hide when things get tough, right? I don't know if that resonates with you, but I pull in and it took a while, but I really have learned in those times to do to just go to God, first and foremost, and there is a practice called the practice of examen. You know, you're all nodding, okay. Everybody's, but examen is just that, it's examining your past and looking for the places and ways that God has moved, touched, delivered you, provided, loved you, gotten you through the tough times, because like I said to you, well, here we are, yeah, we've gone through tough stuff. and we are sitting here now, for all intents and purposes, fine. Having gotten through other bad things, so we can, we can now sit here and pay witness to what God has done in our lives, the times he's brought us through. That is all examen is, where has God brought you through

Tracy - 18:20

.. the faithfulness of God …

Sue - 18:21

Oh, my goodness, never ceases and you can’t help but go into worship from there, you really can't help but say, ‘Oh, my goodness, God, You're so good. You got me through this, and this and the other thing, and then there was that, and when I thought there was no way out, you You got me through it. So, I will thank you. I will praise You. I will worship You. I will lift You up. And that is just such an encouragement. So I go there first, because then that gives me the strength to reach out to other people and say, now I need help...

Tracy - 18:52

...because He is our ultimate Who. He is our ultimate Who, and just as there's a messy gift, or the messy gift in grief as we discussed, one of the gifts in overwhelm for me, and is this phrase that came in my writing was this ‘divine desperation’, like we hunger and thirst. And when we are in those difficult broken places, those are some times where we really recognize the Who of who He is and He is meeting us in those places. But Catherine, you had something you were coming into there, were you?

Catherine - 19:29

I was just really connecting with what you were saying, Sue, in terms of, I mean the Bible says that we're overcomers by the power of Jesus and what He's done, and the word of our testimony. And you are testifying to your own heart, right, like to actually go ‘Jesus remember, help me remember. I love the word remember, it's to put back together again. So help me re-member, put me back together again, in the times when You were there. I feel like my example really connects to that too, because it's not necessarily like a person, but it's this re-membering, because like even the verse that you've chosen Tracy, my biggest memory is when I was telling a friend, I cannot do this anymore. I can't. And she said, ‘You are waving the white flag of surrender to the wrong team. You are a warrior. Turn and look at all the throng of people who are waving the white flag at Jesus’. And I was like, whoa, who gets my flag, right? Like who gets my flag. And so that's right, like, and I don't feel alone, it helps me remember that there's many, many more who are waving this white flag. So I love what you said for any of the people who are listening who don't feel there is all of us waving our white flags alongside of you saying, like, don't say, ‘I can't cope. I can't handle more.’ Turn and look at Jesus because He wants to give you more power, more rest, more wisdom, more strength.

Tracy - 20:54

Thank you. Like, I want to thank you because I want to walk in honor that our listeners can be on any piece of this journey, but like my intro, like in our first episode, like, I will love you regardless of what you believe, but if I am not authentically sharing that I love Jesus, and He is that source, then I'm not going to be able to serve you well. So I want to thank you both for really, for really speaking to that, because we all know that that is our landing place. Right? That is the answer to the overwhelm. And sometimes, for me knowing that we're overwhelmed by Him. That is a word I switch the words God, I'm feeling overwhelmed, and I found something a song even that was that “I'm overwhelmed by You”. [“Overwhelmed” song by Big Daddy Weave ]

Tracy - 21:40

Val …

Val - 21:41

Yeah, well, the first thing that popped into my head, I mean, there's a lot of people that I feel like have inspired me along the journey, but my nephew. He is, he's a preteen. He has global delays, and autism. He's just, he depends on everyone else like to feed him and he's, he's nonverbal. Like, sometimes, you know, when I look at him, I just think - we strive so much, like our, our purpose, and our achievements, and our duties. This is all how we find value in ourselves. And then, and then I look at him and I, I think, well, what makes him valuable?

Tracy - 22:29

That's a good question.

Val - 22:30

You know, and so I try to, and then I look at him and I go, he is so valuable, because he's just, he's just loved by Jesus. And he doesn't have to do anything to be loved by Jesus, you know? And I try to parlay that into my own spirit, because I think a lot of overwhelm comes from our striving, and our duties, and like, we attach it so closely to our value. So, we go about our duties with the sense of, you know, urgency, because it's, it becomes who we are, or how good we are, or, you know, what makes us valuable. And so, I don't know, I just I find him so inspiring. That what the world might consider purposeless … he just, he's, he's so beautiful. And we're so beautiful, even without anything attached to it, right. Yeah. So, that releases us releases us if we can understand we are loved, right?

Tracy - 23:37

And, you know, you talked about practices, one of the practices for me is, is a centering and a centering prayer, and those places, and in one season, just sitting with this repetition that was ‘I am loved, I am loved. I am loved’. Like your nephew, just that visual representation of that, like we are loved just because we breathe and there is nothing that we have to do, there is nothing that we can earn and absolutely the striving those things, those expectations? So there would be a trigger point for me, my own expectations of what needs to be, I have to step back and go okay, am I, am I assigning myself this task or is this really something I need to be doing? Or can I just release this because sometimes we are overwhelmed because we are carrying things we were never meant to carry.

Sue - 24:30

Right? Yeah

Tracy - 24:33

Yeah

Val - 24:33

We measure ourselves

All - 24:34

Oh yeah, we do.

Tracy - 24:36

Oh, yeah.

Sue - 24:37

On a really practical level, though, too. I think I'd just be remiss if I didn't say I have I have a friend, a beautiful wise friend who I love to go and sit with. I think there' a time and place to kind of unload and accountability. Like I can go to Rowan - I love you, Rowan - I can go to Rowan and say, ‘This is what I'm struggling with, hold me accountable to it. What would you say to it?’ These are the people that God puts in our lives. Right? And, and really, if you've got one of those, that's what I like, you're rich, right? And I just think that there is, there's really a place for those people in our lives who can help us in the overwhelm, when we just go, ‘I got nothing!’ like, ‘Feed me!’ because it's wonderful to crawl into the lap of God. And sometimes we need to hear words, sometimes we need that hug. Sometimes we need too many cups of tea, you know, and good conversation. So...

Tracy - 25:41

And I think it's really, like coming back to that thought of there are people who maybe feel like they have no one alongside. One of the thoughts in that question, for me, too, as I was sitting with that, is that that encouragement - we love when we can have people walking alongside us, we absolutely know how He walks with us in those places - but it's not always the place. And so there are places I mean, when I look at that passage, there are two, there are a number of people who come to mind, but none of the people that come to mind, I could sit down and have coffee - not cups of tea – with. One of them is my sister, in that great cloud of witnesses cheering me on, she passed away, Barb, passed away in 2015, and she was one of our biggest cheerleaders. And in all of this, I'm actually wearing her socks today, because they carry a part of her with me, and I can all but hear her still. So sometimes the people that cheer us on the ‘who's’ may not be with us anymore. But if we open our hearts, it's like remembering the faithfulness, like those pieces. But then for some people, there may not be the someone but we can find inspiration, encouragement in the stories of history, of lives that have gone before us. And that was one of the others that really came to mind for me, because one of my, another woman whose life inspires me, who has carried me through a lot of things is Harriet Tubman. And she not only - if you don't know Harriet Tubman find information on her, she was amazing - but she not only escaped from slavery herself, but she also delivered many others to freedom as well. And so sometimes when you listen to who encourages you, who inspires you, it also tells you something about who you are. And so that that whole thing of coming to into freedom and leading others into freedom, like that's there in my heart.

So, from Harriet Tubman, like without dismissing, or diminishing, any of the horrors of that slavery, like that's a whole other conversation, we also recognize there's many things that we can become enslaved to in our world. And these are things that can contribute to our overwhelm. And sometimes in order to find our way through, the way through is to know that there are things we do need to quit. So ongoing, in your story, would you be willing to share something you have needed to quit in order to continue?

Val - 28:18

Yeah, well, I learned this the hard way, a long time ago, actually, that I needed to quit a lot of things. And I'm really good at it now. Like I can say no pretty easily. And I actually just, I kind of sit in things. I don't never say yes, right away. I kind of sit with it. And if it brings me any type of flicker of excitement, or you know, I feel like this is going to actually, you know, I don't know, yeah, bring me joy as well..

Sue - 28:49

Feed you.

Val - 28:50

Yeah, feed me. Yeah, I kind of, that's how I know this is going to, you know, bring me energy as well, and not just zap energy from me, and so that will lead me to say yes, more easily. And of course, there are times when I say yes to things that may also overwhelm me for the greater good, but I really value space. I have quite a bit of space in my life, and I'm really thankful. I always I thank God every day for the space that I have in my life. I only work part time, which is a choice. I mean, we could definitely make more income if I worked more hours. But that space allows me to sit. It allows me to contemplate. It allows my nervous system to come down. It allows me to have the energy that I need to support my husband, my kids, take care of my household. You know, like, I just I always ask God, you know, you know, continue to provide the space for me. I think He wants us to have that space. I don't think he wants us to run around, you know completely overwhelmed because we don't have time for Him. And, and it's not good for us, you know. So I'm just so grateful for space. And I think it's important to make choices to have space.

Tracy - 30:16

And those choices like you said, one of the things that you needed to quit, or at least to draw our attention to needing to quit, is to quit saying yes, yes. To just not say yes all the time! … [group ‘overlap’  ] ... And that thing of not always saying yes, taking that pause before we answer. I have a friend again, one of those alongside women, ‘Let peace be your plumb line’. So it's like you said, like, stop. Is there a peace in me for that?

Catherine - 30:46

Yeah, yeah. Thank you, guys. So much, right? It's the quit thing, stop saying yes so quickly, right? Like, you're saying, I need that pause. So I have quite the list of things. I've quit that go along with that. I’m just going to name them so we can all laugh! So quit trying to own things that aren't mine to carry. Quit figuring out things I can't solve, and they're not mine. Quit bracing myself for pain and thinking there's going to be something coming I can't cope with. Quit packing myself full of meetings, phone calls. Stop trying to manage others responses. Stop trying to figure out the future. Stop making huge to do lists. Stop trying to cram more in. Stop neglecting my peace and rest. Stop scrolling. Stop numbing. Like, there's like, I just could keep going right?

Tracy - 31:36

Oh, my gosh, we could have you keep going. But honestly naming the things, like I really value that list. And even if you like it here, it keeps coming, because naming it, right? Naming those things like to see - Oh, my goodness, I do numb myself with scrolling or all of those other things, but...

Val - 31:55

And I liked that a lot of the things you named weren't, you know, scheduling, they were more emotional choices, that we don't realize zap us. We don't we not only need to look at what do we need to remove in our schedules, we need to look at what do we need to remove that's weighing us down or that’s stealing our energy.

Catherine - 32:16

And why was I doing it? Right? Because there's a reason and I can't wait to talk more about

Sue - 32:24

I took the opposite approach to you, which was what you were talking about Val, which is just like the volume of stuff that we get ourselves into, which can be a numbing technique so that we don't think about the list you just created.

Catharine - 32:38

That's true, right?

Sue - 32:40

Like it's just get busy. But I find that the thing that I'll do is - I'm curious. I love new people and experiences and going places and doing things and I can look at my calendar every now and then and go, what have I done? There is no room for that breathing. There's no space that. Oh, my goodness, Val, I so appreciated what you were saying, because it's yeah, we need space to breathe like how do you? How do you spend time with God? How do you spend time in your own self? And just even, you know, enjoying life? Like just the simple ...

Tracy - 33:14

with no margin

Sue - 33:14

being with no margin,

Tracy - 33:16

right? Our lives right to the edge of the page?

Sue - 33:18

Ah, absolutely.

Val - 33:18

And even our bodies, like as a massage therapist, I see this all the time. The busier you are, the more shallow you breathe. Sure, and you don't even know it. And so, you're right, we need space to breathe. It's so important. That all goes together.

Sue - 33:32

So even this week, I had a life group, small group meeting on Wednesday night, and had to drive about 40 minutes to get to it and really wanted to cancel. Like everything in me was like, I really just want to stay home tonight. But see, these are the things, it's knowing what to cancel and what not to cancel, right. I knew it would be good for me to be with these women and have the conversations we did. And I went and it was an art night. And one of the women had created this beautiful creative experience for us to go through. And we just sat, and created, and had wonderful conversation, and I came away feeling like it was the deep breath and pause that I needed. Had I stayed home I probably would have watched TV or scrolled. And it would not have been as valuable a pause as taking the drive. So, it's really balancing things, right? And knowing what's going to feed and what's going to drain and opting…

Tracy - 34:27

And I think that we can put this in the show notes, a note for this, but right on that content, there is a very useful book - I love books- but it’s called Sacred Rest by Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith,[Sacred Rest by Dr Saundra Dalton-Smith MD https://www.drdaltonsmith.com/publications] and what you said there just speaks to the different kinds of rest that we need. Because the rest that you needed in that situation was the creative, the community, like you said I would have just stayed home, and that might see that I'm going to rest because I'm not going to go out, but like you said a would have been scrolling or would have been watching TV, but the the, the refreshing isn't always what we think it is, and so that is just a really, really valuable resource because rest is sacred, there is something in that, we kind of just push that to the side.

Val - 35:15

If we're talking about, you know, strategies for overwhelm, like now Catherine, you've introduced, you know, a whole other idea, not just scheduling, but our, our emotional wellness. So how do we go about starting? How do we know where to begin? You know, I'm asking you guys.

Tracy - 35:35

I think yeah, I think that that brings us into Catherine's upcoming episode, which is where I stayed a step back from it, because they go hand in hand, that overwhelm and then the how.

So the one that I want to kind of leave our listeners with is my own personal, what do we need to quit, which is exactly where we're talking about, is that one of the things I have to constantly remember to quit is to quit being hurried, to remember rest. And I really love this distinction, though, because we do need to recognize things need to come off our schedule, or things need to be addressed in our heart. But being busy, and being hurried, are not the same thing. And busyness is that outside of us, that condition of our world. And we do need to address I've got too much on my calendar. But busyness is outside of us, hurried is about the heart. And so, I can take a step back, that distinction was so helpful for me because I am in a season of life, and many of you listeners may be where you, you're just busy. Like maybe you have little kids like you can't just say well, I'm not going to take care of my kids or whatever. There are busy seasons, where we just have to be in that season. But our hearts again, that's coming from me back to the quiet, to the centering, ‘Is my heart hurried right now?’ And so you can be busy, but not hurried, honestly.

And so, to wrap up, I'd like to go back to the poem I shared at the start of this episode. And if you remember, the last line that I read said, ‘Rest if you must, but don't you quit.’ And I love that your mum did that. And I absolutely love that you touched on – ‘I felt like I couldn't quit.’- because that's exactly why I want to wrap up with this, because with all respect to Edgar A Guest, and to my dad - sorry, dad! - I disagree. I would change the last line. There's so much truth, but a key piece of the puzzle in finding our way through the overwhelm, rest. Whatever that rest is. And it's not rest ‘IF you must’, it is rest FOR you must, but don't you quit. So please, don't quit, my friends. Don't quit.

And now I say farewell. And I hand this over to our lovely Catherine for her puzzle piece and her question for our next conversation.

Catherine - 38:05

Thank you so much, Tracy. That was such a good conversation, and Val, and Sue for all of the conversation. That was amazing. So, my question to puzzle for our next episode is – ‘Is life just supposed to be hard, especially as a Christian? Or are there any ways to build our capacity to cope with challenges, which has to do with that margin and that space. So I cannot wait to talk more about that. We'll see you soon listeners. Watch! Well actually we'll hear you soon.

Tracy - 38:38

Thank you, everyone. Thank you